orlando had come out of the series with the civil rights history in america. that was kind of a fundamental place from each of them also worked on a documentary series deal the following country but i learned by working in production and then bike immediately working on things of my own. i do think there is a benefit to that best practices thing that happens in institutions. where you're not just struggling to make the thing, you're actually talking about and you also have community and resources. i think if you can afford it, i think that it's certainly a powerful river i just happened to have learned the hard as we possible can which is used by working in production, not doing anything else. >> is the issue here the kind of method, the institutions and the sort of patterns of careers that allows people to train to the sort of watchdog type stuff, whether they were exactly journalists or did someone thinks? are those drawing up? i mean -- >> i mean, documentary film is interesting because in some ways i think that's a really exist at a british ship model is p